Since the Raw Chat and Raw Feeding group mods can be sort of… fascists (to put it lightly) I’ve started a group where raw feeders can discuss other things relating to their pets without having the conversation abruptly ended and posts deleted.
Feel free to join and invite your friends!
Group Chat - Raw Fed Dogs, Cats, and Ferrets
I’ve been neglecting this blog terribly.
What have I been up to?
Trying to control my zoo, work, volunteering, sleeping, and sewing.
I’ve only been successful at about half of those things. Can you guess which ones?
Recently (oh gosh it’s been a month now..) I took a Group Leadership Class with Amanda of Feisty Fido. Amanda is an Edmonton area trainer who does dog training, classes, and runs our Sunday socialization group. She’s moving to Ottawa soon, which is a bummer, but she’s training some pretty cool ladies to keep Feisty Fido going here. The Group Leadership Class was really interesting. It was a dog-free class where Amanda taught us the 8 Simple Rules of Leadership which helps us understand how to set rules and boundaries. I’d been practicing most of the rules already (ok ok.. some only haphazardly) so it was pretty easy to implement what I’d learned. Tomorrow I’m off to another class, Recall! We have a bit of trouble with recall when there’s distractions around, though both dogs do fairly well at the dog park.. when they want to. I’m looking forward to this class and will be taking Oliver since he’s more difficult. :)
Work’s been work. It’s not dog related so we’ll just skip that.
Volunteering! I’ve been getting more involved with Rescue For Life (Look! Our new website is up!) in pretty much whatever way I can. I run their Tumblr, help out with screening adoption and foster homes, do a little bit of creative stuff, and wrangle dogs at events! I’m taking in a foster tonight as well. I love the organization and all the volunteers and supporters who donate their time and money to helping save lives.
Sewing has been almost non-existent. This sucks, because Make-It is coming up soon and if I don’t have anything to sell, I won’t be making any money. I promised myself I’d get my ass in gear this weekend though. I’m donating a portion of my earnings from the event to R4L so I have to make it worthwhile!!
Hi everyone!
I just wanted to let you know that Rescue for Life now has a Tumblr account which I maintain.. please follow us!
Yes, good.
(Source: epicallyfunny, via positivethinkingpuppies)
Going here for a week.
G’s grandma is turning 80, so the family is having a big party for her.
I’m excited, but I’ll miss the zoo.
Kiva is at her old foster mom’s, and Oliver is at a friend’s.
Hopefully there will be some kind of update when I’m back :)
Kiva is going in for her second set of shots at the end of the month.
I’m excited, because then she can start coming to socialization and we can go to the dog park!
She’ll make so many friends! ..and if not, she always has Ollie. :)
![lindseyap:
insanity-dogs:
myasphyxiatedmind:
lettucebevegan:
hopefulveterinarian:
itsdetachable:
myasphyxiatedmind:
theshoutsofmany:
fartsack:
this makes it so your dog can look down on people too
Oh yay, more unhealthy pet food!
Guys. Guys. You guys.
I have a great idea.
Let’s feed our carnivorous pets something with no animal protein in it whatsoever.
Flawless.
Vegan pet foods for carnivorous pets.
Because fuck physiology I need to push my morals onto everything and creatures that can’t argue with me or fight back are perfect outlets for this necessity of mine.
Animals eating other animals or their products? What are you, stupid or something?
Crazy talk I says, absolutely crazy…
Dogs are omnivores, not carnivores…just had to clear that up. ;)
Plants provide enough protein to sustain both people and dogs. Cats are a different story…they are strictly carnivores and require taurine that comes from meat. If a person chooses to feed their dog a vegan diet, the dog can get enough required nutrients from plant protein as long as they are fed a BALANCED diet.
Personally, I would rather have a dog that eats a food with high nutritional value than some filler food off the grocery store shelf like Pedigree or Old Roy.
When the time is taken to create a balanced and complete diet, vegan diets can work. Obviously, as with any diet, regular visits and check-ups with a veterinarian are necessary to ensure the dog is healthy and receiving all the nutrients it needs.
People are going to argue that a vegan diet for a dog is not “natural.” But with that way of thinking…is any commercially sold dog food natural? Does any grocery store sell live animals that dogs can hunt, kill, and consume? (Wild dogs, such as hyenas, eat the stomach and intestines first because of the nutrients they receive from the partially digested vegetation content within.)
The fact is, we have domesticated this animal and the diet that is necessary for the survival of a canine in the wild is not necessary for the normal house dog. It mirrors the same thinking in regard to humans, we are no longer forced to hunt and scavenge for our food, therefore we can choose where our proteins and nutrients are derived from.
One last point…plant-based diets for animals, much like people, have been proven to lower a dog’s cholesterol, and reduce the chance of strokes, cancer and heart disease. Many dogs have allergies to meat and their by-products and are forced to rely on a plant-based diet because of this.
Actually, no, they are carnivores. They aren’t obligate carnivores, but they most certainly are carnivores. I like to refer to them as opportunistic carnivores, myself, as they can indeed derive nutrients from and temporarily survive on plant matter in times of need. It’s a survival adaptation. It doesn’t take away from the fact that they thrive on an all meat diet. Their dental structure and digestive system are still more or less identical to that of a wolfs.
Some people do feed their dogs a completely natural diet modeled after what wolves eat. It’s called a raw-prey model.
Why choose between crappy, low quality kibble like Ol’roy or veg*n? Why does it even have to be a ‘which is the lesser of two evils’ scenario? How about we just feed our dogs healthy food?
“(Wild dogs, such as hyenas, eat the stomach and intestines first because of the nutrients they receive from the partially digested vegetation content within.)”
This is untrue, at least in the case of wolves.
The following quotations are taken from L. David Mech’s 2003 book Wolves: Behavior, Ecology, and Conservation. Mech (and the others who contributed to this book) is considered the world’s leading wolf biologist, and this book is a compilation of 350 collective years of research, experiments, and careful field observations. These quotes are taken from chapter 4, The Wolf as a Carnivore.
“Wolves usually tear into the body cavity of large prey and…consume the larger internal organs, such as lungs, heart, and liver. The large rumen [, which is one of the main stomach chambers in large ruminant herbivores,]…is usually punctured during removal and its contents spilled. The vegetation in the intestinal tract is of no interest to the wolves, but the stomach lining and intestinal wall are consumed, and their contents further strewn about the kill site.” (pg.123, emphasis added)
“To grow and maintain their own bodies, wolves need to ingest all the major parts of their herbivorous prey, except the plants in the digestive system.” (pg.124, emphasis added).
Excerpt from: Myth: WOLVES INGEST THE STOMACH CONTENTS OF THEIR PREY.
Dogs also have allergens to plant protein more so than animal protein. I have never found a dog that was allergic to every animal protein out there.
This is the ingredients is this lovely pet food. I’ll highlight the known allergens, okay?
Full fat soya, corn gluten, corn, rice, flaxmeal, yeast, brewer’s yeast, sunflower and soy oil (cold pressed organic), vital amino acids, vitamins and minerals, natural enzymes, spirillina, kelp, yucca extract, Omega 3 and Omega 6, Taurine, LCarnitine, Amylase, vegetarian chicken flavour (Doesn’t say what is in here), Prebiotic, Aa, DHA and EPA
Uh houston I think we have a problem. Considering they make up the most of this pet “food”.
I’ve never ever heard of a dog having problems when fed the raw diet (when done properly, of course). It is so sad when we impose our beliefs on animals when it detriments them.
Ugh. This x 1000. If you want to live a vegan lifestyle, that’s fine. Don’t make your dog live it too though, it isn’t natural.](http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lv3prnLzNH1qdjla7o1_400.jpg)
this makes it so your dog can look down on people too
Oh yay, more unhealthy pet food!
Guys. Guys. You guys.
I have a great idea.
Let’s feed our carnivorous pets something with no animal protein in it whatsoever.
Flawless.
Vegan pet foods for carnivorous pets.
Because fuck physiology I need to push my morals onto everything and creatures that can’t argue with me or fight back are perfect outlets for this necessity of mine.
Animals eating other animals or their products? What are you, stupid or something?
Crazy talk I says, absolutely crazy…
Dogs are omnivores, not carnivores…just had to clear that up. ;)
Plants provide enough protein to sustain both people and dogs. Cats are a different story…they are strictly carnivores and require taurine that comes from meat. If a person chooses to feed their dog a vegan diet, the dog can get enough required nutrients from plant protein as long as they are fed a BALANCED diet.
Personally, I would rather have a dog that eats a food with high nutritional value than some filler food off the grocery store shelf like Pedigree or Old Roy.
When the time is taken to create a balanced and complete diet, vegan diets can work. Obviously, as with any diet, regular visits and check-ups with a veterinarian are necessary to ensure the dog is healthy and receiving all the nutrients it needs.
People are going to argue that a vegan diet for a dog is not “natural.” But with that way of thinking…is any commercially sold dog food natural? Does any grocery store sell live animals that dogs can hunt, kill, and consume? (Wild dogs, such as hyenas, eat the stomach and intestines first because of the nutrients they receive from the partially digested vegetation content within.)
The fact is, we have domesticated this animal and the diet that is necessary for the survival of a canine in the wild is not necessary for the normal house dog. It mirrors the same thinking in regard to humans, we are no longer forced to hunt and scavenge for our food, therefore we can choose where our proteins and nutrients are derived from.
One last point…plant-based diets for animals, much like people, have been proven to lower a dog’s cholesterol, and reduce the chance of strokes, cancer and heart disease. Many dogs have allergies to meat and their by-products and are forced to rely on a plant-based diet because of this.
Actually, no, they are carnivores. They aren’t obligate carnivores, but they most certainly are carnivores. I like to refer to them as opportunistic carnivores, myself, as they can indeed derive nutrients from and temporarily survive on plant matter in times of need. It’s a survival adaptation. It doesn’t take away from the fact that they thrive on an all meat diet. Their dental structure and digestive system are still more or less identical to that of a wolfs.
Some people do feed their dogs a completely natural diet modeled after what wolves eat. It’s called a raw-prey model.
Why choose between crappy, low quality kibble like Ol’roy or veg*n? Why does it even have to be a ‘which is the lesser of two evils’ scenario? How about we just feed our dogs healthy food?
“(Wild dogs, such as hyenas, eat the stomach and intestines first because of the nutrients they receive from the partially digested vegetation content within.)”
This is untrue, at least in the case of wolves.
The following quotations are taken from L. David Mech’s 2003 book Wolves: Behavior, Ecology, and Conservation. Mech (and the others who contributed to this book) is considered the world’s leading wolf biologist, and this book is a compilation of 350 collective years of research, experiments, and careful field observations. These quotes are taken from chapter 4, The Wolf as a Carnivore.
“Wolves usually tear into the body cavity of large prey and…consume the larger internal organs, such as lungs, heart, and liver. The large rumen [, which is one of the main stomach chambers in large ruminant herbivores,]…is usually punctured during removal and its contents spilled. The vegetation in the intestinal tract is of no interest to the wolves, but the stomach lining and intestinal wall are consumed, and their contents further strewn about the kill site.” (pg.123, emphasis added)
“To grow and maintain their own bodies, wolves need to ingest all the major parts of their herbivorous prey, except the plants in the digestive system.” (pg.124, emphasis added).
Excerpt from: Myth: WOLVES INGEST THE STOMACH CONTENTS OF THEIR PREY.Dogs also have allergens to plant protein more so than animal protein. I have never found a dog that was allergic to every animal protein out there.
This is the ingredients is this lovely pet food. I’ll highlight the known allergens, okay?
Full fat soya, corn gluten, corn, rice, flaxmeal, yeast, brewer’s yeast, sunflower and soy oil (cold pressed organic), vital amino acids, vitamins and minerals, natural enzymes, spirillina, kelp, yucca extract, Omega 3 and Omega 6, Taurine, LCarnitine, Amylase, vegetarian chicken flavour (Doesn’t say what is in here), Prebiotic, Aa, DHA and EPA
Uh houston I think we have a problem. Considering they make up the most of this pet “food”.
I’ve never ever heard of a dog having problems when fed the raw diet (when done properly, of course). It is so sad when we impose our beliefs on animals when it detriments them.
Ugh. This x 1000. If you want to live a vegan lifestyle, that’s fine. Don’t make your dog live it too though, it isn’t natural.
(Source: kush2loud)
A lot of people are unsure about when and how to feed raw to puppies.
Honestly, feeding puppies is the same as feeding an adult dog. There isn’t any benefit to feeding a puppy kibble over raw.
If you have a puppy that has previously been eating kibble, eliminate it completely for the smoothest transition. You don’t want to EVER mix raw and kibble as it’s hard on a dog’s digestive system.
With puppies, you still want to feed at least 2-3% of their expected adult body weight a day, though some puppies may require more.
For puppies under 4 months of age, you should offer them 3 meals a day. If they refuse a meal, feed them 2 times a day. If they need 4 meals, feed them 4.
Dogs over 6 months can eat twice a day. You can feed them once a day if they seem to prefer it, but some dogs may always want to eat twice.
I started Oliver off on one meal a day, but he seems hungry in the evenings, so now I feed him twice.
With Kiva, since she’s 3 months old and expected to be around 50lbs she eats about the same amount of food as Oliver, or a bit more.
I feed her twice a day, honestly because it’s most convenient for me.
She’s fine with it because that’s how her foster mom fed her.
Puppies can start eating raw as soon as they’re weaned. Obviously, feed size appropriate bones, etc. An 8 week old puppy can eat chicken backs, but you shouldn’t give her a whole turkey.
With puppies as in older dogs, start off with one protein source. Chicken is a good start, but you can really pick anything. Slowly introduce other meats as their little bodies allow (too much change too quick can result in smelly messes!) Adding a new protein source or some organs every couple weeks is usually a good pace, but it depends on the dog. Some take longer to adjust, some are quicker. I feed Kiva everything already. She was found on a reserve all alone, and probably ate whatever she could find. I haven’t had any issues yet, but if I do, I can eliminate the problem food for a while.
So, in short form, feeding puppies is really no different than feeding an adult dog, and transitioning them to a raw diet is the same as well.
It seems I’ve been slacking with my posts :)
One of the concerns I’ve seen the most from people who WANT to feed raw, is that they don’t think they can afford it.
If you’re buying regular old grocery store meat, you probably can’t.
There are ways to feed raw on a budget!
My favourite resource is what’s known as “The Lis List”:
Finding Cheaper / Free Sources of Meat (For Raw Feeding):
1) look up meat and poultry packers, plants, and distributors in the yellow pages (or online). You may be able to get great prices from them if you order in bulk, and/or they may have a discount outlet that is open to the public.
2)I get many of my best deals in Asian/Oriental markets. I’ve also heard that Hispanic and Caribbean markets have great variety and prices too. But not all ethnic markets are the same - some are much cheaper than others - you must visit a few and compare.
3) you may be able to join a barter group.
4) google breeders (i.e. rabbit, goat, lamb, etc.) who are in your geographic area. They may have culls they want to get rid of, or stillborns, or lower prices overall. Don’t forget 4-H breeders.
5) try bulk buying - Look up bulk suppliers and frozen bulk foods in your yellow pages (or online).
6) if you have a Chinatown nearby, definitely make a visit.
7) let your friends, relatives, and neighbors know you want any freezer burnt or old meat when they clean out their freezers, and tell them to pass the word along. Freezer-burnt meat may be dried out on the edges but is perfectly safe for pets as long as it has been frozen all this time.
8) if you belong to a church or social group, tell those members to mention it to their friends and relatives as well. You may be allowed to put a notice on the bulletin board or in the newsletter.
9) see if there are any co-ops or meat buying groups near you. Check on Yahoo, or Google to see. Searching for co-ops or meat buying groups is a bit easier if you use “raw” and “BARF” as keywords, and also use names or acronyms of your town/city/county/state/region.
http://groups.yahoo.com/
9b) and here’s a website that lists a number of raw food co-ops and groups: http://www.dogaware.com/diet/rawgroups.html
10) try a free ad website, like Craigslist or Kijiji - it’s amazing what you can get for free or cheap. Here are the most popular ones:
http://www.craigslist.org/about/sites.html
11)And I get meat, poultry, and fish all the time (for free) through Freecycle. Join multiple lists if you live or work close to the boundary of another list. And join some of the other variations too:
http://www.freecycle.org/
http://www.sharingisgiving.org
http://www.reuseitnetwork.org/
http://www.freesharing.org/sites_like_us.php
12) some Walmarts and some Costcos and some Sams Clubs have good deals, but you may want to make sure it’s not seasoned meat you’re buying (most of the time that is what they have, and some pets have difficulty with it).
13) definitely watch the store flyers, and you can usually see the rest of the flyers online (the ones that don’t get delivered to your home, but are only a short drive away).
14)hands down, the bulk of my best deals have been marked down meat at regular grocery stores. They reduce it the day before it is going to expire, and I go as early as I can in the morning to get it before it is gone.
15) tell friends and relatives who hunt and fish that you want first dibs on any body parts they don’t want. You can probably get at least the organs and maybe the head. Also ask them to put you in touch with their other friends who hunt and fish.
16) a great tip I learned a while back – some restaurants and caterers throw out things they don’t use, like the organs that come inside whole poultry, or raw meat that falls on the floor. See if they’ll save them for you. Find somebody who knows somebody who works in a restaurant or knows a caterer.
17) farmer’s markets are great, but pick and choose carefully for the best bargains. And sometimes at the end of the day some vendors will reduce their prices, cause they don’t want to take it back with them.
18) some people contact taxidermists, who have no use for the meat.
19) join the RawFeeding Yahoo Group and find people on that list from your vicinity, and ask them where they get their meat deals.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/
Join other raw feeding lists or other pet or breeder related lists (there are many, some may even be local to you), and ask if there are other raw feeders in your area. And there is also a Facebook rawfeeding group:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=261761471359
20) tell your butcher you want the meat that they would normally throw out, that is almost out of date, that people ordered and didn’t pick up, stuff that was dropped on the floor, their freezer clean-outs, and parts that don’t sell (like trachea, lungs, spleen, etc.). Some butchers will save their trim for you (once they get to know you). Build a relationship with them first. Many butchers will give you these things for free, once they know you (and especially if you are a regular customer who buys meat for yourself).
21) yes, roadkill works too (where it is legal). In some places you can get your name on the list and get called when they have large roadkill (like deer). You may be able to move to the top of the list if you say you don’t mind getting called at night or for kill more than a couple of hours old.
22) you can raise your own meat/poultry if you have the space.
23) post a message in CarnivoreFeed-Supplier if you are in the U.S. or CFS-Canada if you are in Canada, or CFS-Australia if you are in Australia. All of these groups specialize in matching up meat suppliers with raw feeders:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CarnivoreFeed-Supplier/
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CFS-Canada/
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CFS-Australia/
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=118405634857097&v=wall&ref=ts
24) speak to local farmers. Also, you may also be able to get their injured or old stock at very reduced prices.
25) you can look for heart, tongue, and gizzards which count as meat (as opposed to organ) in the world of raw feeding, but are often cheaper than other muscle meats.
26) find somebody who knows somebody who works at the grocery store. They can introduce you to the meat guy, who may become more willing to save stuff for you or reduce items about to expire, once they know you.
27) check the internet. Some suppliers have affordable prices, even after shipping costs are calculated.
28) double-whammy: if a meat is on special this week at the grocery, go in and check the expiry date on the packages. Then go back to get it when reduced again (reduction on the reduction) the day of or day before expiry (depending on their policy).
29) somebody had a great source a while back: some schools (colleges) that teach butchering sell the meat really cheap, that the students have worked on.
30) check out the meat processing plants and/or slaughter houses – they process the animals for farmers or hunters (amongst others). You can often get the left over pieces for free. If you have the stomach for it, you can ask to go through the gut barrels and trim barrels yourself.
31) ask a few of your local grocery stores and butchers what it would cost to order things for you by the case. Compare prices.
32) someone mentioned that depending on where you live you may be able to attend livestock auctions and then get the animal butchered.
33) if you know any apartment building managers, ask them about the frozen meat people leave behind when they move out.
34) you may be able to order from restaurant suppliers.
35) find more hunters (and their unwanted meat) by posting a notice on bulletin boards where they may congregate (like feed, tractor, country supply, sports, army supply, or gun stores), or at hunter check points, and by posting in online hunter’s forums. Hunters also need to get rid of last year’s catch to make room for this year’s.
36) if you live close to the waterfront, you may be able to buy some of the day’s catch as it comes in. if you are close to a lake or river, also speak to people who may be fishing for sport and have no interest in eating their catch.
37) find people who will be moving (and may not want to lug all their freezer contents with them) by watching for “sold” signs on front lawns in your neighborhood and popping a note in their mailbox.
38) find a raw feeding buddy, maybe an hour’s drive away. When you each find a good deal in your own area, buy twice as much. Then split what you find with your buddy, once or twice a month.
39) viral e-mail – create a friendly e-mail, introducing yourself and asking for old, freezer-burnt, and wild meat and send it to everyone you know in your geographic area. AND ask that each person receiving the e-mail forwards it to everyone they know in your geographic area. And so on.
40) put a “Wanted” ad in the Classifieds section of your local newspaper. Using a headline with bold lettering, like “ATTENTION: Homemakers/Hunters” may improve your results.
41) I recently saw a Craigslist ad where someone offered to butcher road kill moose or deer (for free) so they could keep half for themselves and give half to the person who found the road kill.
42) start a freezer cleaning/clean-out service
43) someone mentioned that if you live near a dairy, you may be able to get old or lame or “dry” cows for just pennies a pound. Even with the cost of butchering, it ends up being a bargain.
*****
I’ve had great success with Kijiji, and also hitting up Superstore for their 30% off “old” meat.
